OCing in Dover....illegal

George · **Posted:** Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:54 pm

GatorDude wrote:

You don't need to "cover it up" just because you have a CCDW permit. It just permits you to have the weapon on you in certain places where otherwise prohibited (such as Dover city limits and school zones).

gatordude, as a lawyer, is it your interpretation the phrase "Possession, carrying or use in conformity with a license issued by the state for that weapon " will not lead to charges for an open carrier?

GatorDude · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:20 am

I don't understand the context or meaning of the question.

OC in Dover w/o a CCDW bad.

CC in Dover w/a CCDW ok.

OC in Dover w/ a CCDW ok.

a CCDW does not MANDATE that the weapon be concealed. While it is called that, it gives a license to possess/carry generally. Otherwise, any time your firearm became visible you could be in trouble.

George · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:05 pm

There has been question here in past on the wording of " in conformity with".
No, the statute does not say you must conceal.
It does start "desiring to be licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon".

if you have possession of a valid ccdw then you obtained it by following the proper steps. 1441 places no limitations on ccdw once issued (except expiration) so are the words "in conformity with" meaningless?

Hopefully I am not being dense, but how would you carry in conformity to something that has no restrictions? unless you were complying with the intent "desiring ... to carry a concealed deadly weapon"?

myopicvisionary · **Posted:** Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:23 pm

It is the wording that causes trouble. At least Newark dumped their ordinance. Nobody could understand that abomination of a law!

SugarBoy13 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:50 am **Posts:** 653

George wrote:

There has been question here in past on the wording of " in conformity with".
No, the statute does not say you must conceal.
It does start "desiring to be licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon".

if you have possession of a valid ccdw then you obtained it by following the proper steps. 1441 places no limitations on ccdw once issued (except expiration) so are the words "in conformity with" meaningless?

Hopefully I am not being dense, but how would you carry in conformity to something that has no restrictions? unless you were complying with the intent "desiring ... to carry a concealed deadly weapon"?

This Dover ordinance is horribly worded, I have a difficult time understanding their intent. Maybe, we should ask them to amend it and clarify what exactly they wish to restrict...

Jacques · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:08 pm

Quote:

"The report of my death was an exaggeration."
-Mark Twain After reading his own obituary, June 2, 1897

Quote:

CODE OF ORDINANCES
CITY OF
DOVER, DELAWARE

Codified through
Ordinance No. 2010-07, enacted March 22, 2010.
(Supplement No. 11)

§ Sec. 70-2. Weapons generally.
(a) Prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person to have in his possession, carry or use a revolver or pistol of any description, a shotgun or rifle which may be used for the explosion of bullets and cartridges, or any air gun, BB gun, gas-operated gun or spring-operated gun, or any instrument, toy or weapon commonly known as a "peashooter," "slingshot" or "beany," or any bow made for the purpose of throwing or projecting missiles of any kind by any means whatsoever, or any knife, whether that instrument is called by any name set forth above or by any other name.
(b) License. The weapons prohibited in subsection (a) of this section shall be permitted upon the grant of a license therefor, if required, in the following situations:
(1) On owner's property. Possession within the possessor's own domicile or business.
(2) Other license or permit. Possession, carrying or use in conformity with a license issued by the state for that weapon or a permit issued by the chief of police.
(3) Shooting ranges. Possession or use at licensed shooting galleries or ranges when the instrument can be fired, discharged or operated in a manner that shall not endanger persons or property, and also in a manner that shall prevent the projectile from traversing any grounds or space outside the limits of the gallery or range.
(4) Unloaded and cased. Carrying of any type of gun whatsoever, when unloaded and properly cased, to or from any licensed gallery or range or to or from an area where hunting is allowed by law. This subsection shall not limit the permitted carrying of guns allowed by subsection (b)(5) of this section.
(5) Officers. Carrying, wearing, possessing and using, by United States marshals, sheriffs, constables and their deputies, and any regular, special or ex officio police officer, or any other law enforcement officer while on duty, or as shall be necessary in the proper discharge of their duties.
(6) State license. Possession, carrying or use in conformity with a license issued by the state for that purpose in areas approved by the chief of police, and only then when used in such a manner that shall not endanger persons or property.
(7) Defense. Persons exercising their legal right of self-defense or defense of property or others.

Doesn't #7 make this discussion moot.

(a) - clearly says prohibited...
(b) - states "...shall be permitted upon the grant of a license therefor, if required, in the following situations:..."

(7) - are we not "Persons exercising their legal right of self-defense or defense of property or others."???

@Shadrack - If you can hear me chime in...

So unless you're in one of the generally taboo locales...

Carry on...

white95zj · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:04 pm

SugarBoy13 wrote:

This Dover ordinance is horribly worded, I have a difficult time understanding their intent. Maybe, we should ask them to amend it and clarify what exactly they wish to restrict...

By what KiB posted, it appears they did in March of this year.

becauseican · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:41 pm

would it be so hard for the people writting this stuff to flat out say," yes you can, or no you can't" the wording...seems contradicting. You need a license but not for self defense? not less I did'nt read something right.

GatorDude · **Posted:** Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:52 pm

I may pose the question to the atty for Dover. I know some folks associated with the law firm that represents them. I need to be careful though, as I do not want to draw too much negative attention to the issue either.

I've been contemplating this for a while and the same law firm assisted me (and another DELOC member) with an issue in Middletown a while back that seems to have been quite helpful and supportive to OC'ing.

Schlitz · **Joined:** Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:05 pm **Posts:** 2

Quote:

CODE OF ORDINANCES
CITY OF
DOVER, DELAWARE

Codified through
Ordinance No. 2010-07, enacted March 22, 2010.
(Supplement No. 11)

§ Sec. 70-2. Weapons generally.
(a) Prohibited. It shall be unlawful for any person to have in his possession, carry or use a revolver or pistol of any description, a shotgun or rifle which may be used for the explosion of bullets and cartridges, or any air gun, BB gun, gas-operated gun or spring-operated gun, or any instrument, toy or weapon commonly known as a "peashooter," "slingshot" or "beany," or any bow made for the purpose of throwing or projecting missiles of any kind by any means whatsoever, or any knife, whether that instrument is called by any name set forth above or by any other name.
(b) License. The weapons prohibited in subsection (a) of this section shall be permitted upon the grant of a license therefor, if required, in the following situations:
(1) On owner's property. Possession within the possessor's own domicile or business.
(2) Other license or permit. Possession, carrying or use in conformity with a license issued by the state for that weapon or a permit issued by the chief of police.
(3) Shooting ranges. Possession or use at licensed shooting galleries or ranges when the instrument can be fired, discharged or operated in a manner that shall not endanger persons or property, and also in a manner that shall prevent the projectile from traversing any grounds or space outside the limits of the gallery or range.
(4) Unloaded and cased. Carrying of any type of gun whatsoever, when unloaded and properly cased, to or from any licensed gallery or range or to or from an area where hunting is allowed by law. This subsection shall not limit the permitted carrying of guns allowed by subsection (b)(5) of this section.
(5) Officers. Carrying, wearing, possessing and using, by United States marshals, sheriffs, constables and their deputies, and any regular, special or ex officio police officer, or any other law enforcement officer while on duty, or as shall be necessary in the proper discharge of their duties.
(6) State license. Possession, carrying or use in conformity with a license issued by the state for that purpose in areas approved by the chief of police, and only then when used in such a manner that shall not endanger persons or property.
(7) Defense. Persons exercising their legal right of self-defense or defense of property or others.

How did you gain access to this ordinance? I looked up Ordinance No. 2010-07 and all I got was some bull crap that deals with water... "Ordinances Related to Creation of Water-Wastewater Handbook"

http://www.cityofdover.com/?c=/governme ... il/ordres/

I'm traveling from Florida to Delaware next month for a few days and I want to open carry while I am there, (I DO have a ccw from Florida which is recognized by Delaware.) I will spend a lot of time in Dover and Smyrna, but there doesn't seem to be a clear answer on open carry in Dover. I WOULD ask law enforcement, but unfortunately most of the time they don't understand the laws and the rights of the citizen.

OCing in Dover....illegal

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